Curse

Master Ketsu · Aug 25, 2008, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Note that the elitists will flame the hell out of me for this. I don't mind.

The current rank system in Guild Wars is somewhat flawed in that it encourages people to discriminate against ranks a bit too much then they should be...which has led to the failure that HA is now. For people like me who have a rank , its not TOO bad, but I have so many friends that are r0 and simply cannot get a group or even get into a guild that does HA because of it. HA is dead to pickup groups and will eventually die because of it. Sure its possible for them to gain rank 3 and at least be pickup able if they really try as there are ways, but it would be dishonest to not admit that it detours more people then it should.

To be honest the rank discrimination wasn't that bad before long. I had quit HA a while due to IRL shit but came back 5 days ago just to have some lulz...so there I was sitting in a r6+ team and a friend of mine wanted to play. She is r5... maybe 10 points away from 6, and the majority of the people in my party started to flame me for even suggesting we let in an r5 ? WTF ? 10 months ago something as little as that would have been no problem.
Its sad to see how the playerbase of HA has degenerated into such a 4chan level of quality.

So the idea is for GW2 is this: ( GW1 is far too gone off the deep end to save it imo. Plus this system likely would not work as well for GW1's system ):

Split hero into 2 titles:

-The first title would be current rank. It would work somewhat like this:

Loses 0 fame for each loss
rank 1 - 10 fame
rank 2 - 20
Loses 1 fame for each loss
rank 3 - 50
rank 4 - 70
Loses 2 fame for each loss
rank 5 - 120
rank 6 - 160
Loses 3 fame for each loss
rank 7 - 200
rank 8 - 280
Loses 4 fame for each loss
rank 9 - 380
rank 10 - 480
Loses 5 fame for each loss
rank 11 - 600
rank 12 - 720
Loses 6 fame for each loss
rank 13 - 850
rank 14 - 950
Loses 10 fame for each loss
rank 15 - 1200

( numbers would likely have to be extensively tested and tweaked. I am by no means suggesting they be exactly this, just something similar. )

Fame gaining: system for gaining fame would remain as is with one large difference, in that both teams overall combined rank would be calculated as a percentage and players with lower rank would gain/lose rank based on that percentage. This means a team that stacks themselves with nothing but r10's that loses to a group of r5's would actually lose more like 6 fame each, and the r5's would gain 50% more. This would encourage groups to allow a lower ranked player in to offset their rank penalty.

The idea is to encourage the vets into letting new people at the very least play the friggin game.

The second title I am not sure of as its possible players that hate that system would just discriminate on this one:

Basically the second title is just a "Highest rank achieved" title. You gain a level in it every time you obtain a rank you have never been at before. Obviously, the max is 15. This title would be abolished if it got out of hand.

Flame on.

Tommy529 · Aug 25, 2008, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Bad Idea!!!!!!!!

ALF71BE · Aug 25, 2008, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Wait a minute, are you saying we'll have HA in GW2?

Bryant Again · Aug 25, 2008, 01:22 AM // 01:22

I like the system because it's interesting and a higher rank will show less of a status of time and more of skill, much like a K: D ratio.

But I'm not in favor of it to help "descrimination", since that can't ever really be helped.

Master Ketsu · Aug 25, 2008, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

Wait a minute, are you saying we'll have HA in GW2?

Or at the very least something like it. The core of the suggestion really comes down to being more of a ratio, and including a system that encourages people to be more friendly to those just starting out.

Heck, I just tried pretending to be a rank zero on a different character with a pve title on...and despite the fact that I acted extremely polite and claimed to be a player who was just trying to learn pretty much everyone told me to GTFO and die. Anyone who doesn't believe me is free to turn their title off and have a go at it yourself...

Although you are right Bryant, discrimination will always happen regardless of how the ranks are set up. The idea is to make it quicker and easier to break into PVP -

In the current system, if you want to get into doing HA you need to find a guild that will first accept you into it that has good players that are willing to let a lower ranked player join....then do hall runs using either FOTM's or a balnced guild-specific build in which you will likely be given an easy role to start out. This is a lot of grind and takes some time, and finding a guild willing to take you in is more often then not very low ranked themselves and results in many just turning back to GvG or pve or whatever.

In this one there is actually a fame bonus incentive to encourage the vets into letting someone lower ranked then them in their group as it will lower the fame they lose and increase the fame they gain. This kind of system exists in other games and has worked to at least lessen discrimination to some level were newbies don't get totally left out just for being what they are.

Lykan · Aug 25, 2008, 01:32 AM // 01:32

You have no idea if there will be a HA or even rank in GW2, this thread is pointless. And the idea is also bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

and including a system that encourages people to be more friendly to those just starting out.

Hi you know this is the internet right?

ShadowsRequiem · Aug 25, 2008, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Ha has been dead for a long time.... for you to just realize this is sad.

jasonjetlag · Aug 25, 2008, 01:43 AM // 01:43

So... a good guild has a 40 consecutive win streak..everyones r15. and thats it. no higher. they maxed

Wabo · Aug 25, 2008, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Good idea, 95% of the people want a r6 or higher.
They tell us to GTFO and die, and come back when we are r6 or even higher, How can a r1 possibly get higher if none wants them?

For a r1 it takes about 2 hours (if it isn't even more) to find a decent party hopefully without ragequitters.

For a r6, It would be done in 10-20 minutes to set up a complete party.

My opinion: If you want to play in a decent party, and you are newly to GW, or just have low fame because you didn't pvp much, than gl with finding a party, you just got fked.
Wich means when Guild Wars came out, you should have going to HA because there wasn't a rank discrimination during that time.

There is still one option left: Fame farm service.
Though due to fame farm services, some people only want R9's

ajc2123 · Aug 25, 2008, 01:52 AM // 01:52

I do havea personal grudge against the rank wars in this game but, I can also understand why people would want to get an 'experienced' group in a time consuming pvp. It's something I wish is easier to get into for newbies (New to HA not new to PvP in general) but I don't think that can be accomplished.

How about a rank (That doesn't count for a title per say, but IS a symbol of knowledge) that is given from playing a HA clone with NPCS so you are used to the gameplay that is different from AB, RA, Gvg, and TA. Also you would get Minimal faction and it would have a daily cap and no other rewards. Then once you get a certain rank in that (whatever players deem worthy) then It would be easier to get into HA.

Master Ketsu · Aug 25, 2008, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

( numbers would likely have to be extensively tested and tweaked. I am by no means suggesting they be exactly this, just something similar. )

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonjetlag

So... a good guild has a 40 consecutive win streak..everyones r15. and thats it. no higher. they maxed

sigh...

12 characters.

mastermaxx1 · Aug 25, 2008, 02:02 AM // 02:02

I'm am some one that has tried countless times to break into HA (and PvP for that matter) and have failed. I think I've been in HA 3 times and my group (a PUG) died in the UW. I would love a new system that would make it easier to get into HA.

Since I'm not too experienced at HA I don't know too much about it but here's what I suggest:

Why not make the title undisplayalble. This way people can still get their max title but no one knows how high a rank you really are. Like you said, you pretended to be r0 and got flamed. With this method people can say whatever rank they want to say but it's not gonna matter since no one will know for sure.

An example of this working:

I get in HA, kick ass, some one adds me to their friends list in case they want to group with a skilled player, and they never no that I don't have a rank.

Please find flaws and rework my ideas

dilan155 · Aug 25, 2008, 02:04 AM // 02:04

HA has been long dead, from the moment someone became higher than r0(the base) the discrimination has happened. It is rather sad this happens but thats how it is. If ha is gonna be in GW 2 then it MUST be tweaked, if it is to have any better chance than the current system, and this looks better than most other suggestions people has given.

Apok Omen · Aug 25, 2008, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by mastermaxx1

Why not make the title undisplayalble. This way people can still get their max title but no one knows how high a rank you really are. Like you said, you pretended to be r0 and got flamed. With this method people can say whatever rank they want to say but it's not gonna matter since no one will know for sure.

An example of this working:

I get in HA, kick ass, some one adds me to their friends list in case they want to group with a skilled player, and they never no that I don't have a rank.

Please find flaws and rework my ideas

First off, and this is not a ''please stop whining about rank discrim'' reply, but a title is there to show everyone how experienced you are in that field (except for PvE titles, which are just a meter of how much of your life was wasted trying to be able to deal +10 damage to a monster)

If there wasn't anyway of displaying your experience besides knowing someone or being someone, then there would be even less people in tombs. Rank is there to either show how many times you were in a specific map, ran a heroway under an alias(IWAY was actually fun the play against), or leeched off of better players. Or to occasionally flash someone your Bambi, Balto, Pussy, Fawkes, or Professor Dog.

OP: Your idea, however, is interesting. In the currect system, if you lose horribly over and over again, the only way of showing people you fail is to have it publically announced by either the shitters who beat you or by your rep-obsessed leader. With your system, it shows a current title of skill, letting everyone know how good you are at a dead game(harharhar) or how much you fail.

Either way, there will always be discrimination from people who most likely suck and only want good people with them to make them look good.

ajc2123 · Aug 25, 2008, 02:26 AM // 02:26

I like my idea >_> lol

mastermaxx1 · Aug 25, 2008, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

First off, and this is not a ''please stop whining about rank discrim'' reply, but a title is there to show everyone how experienced you are in that field (except for PvE titles, which are just a meter of how much of your life was wasted trying to be able to deal +10 damage to a monster)

If there wasn't anyway of displaying your experience besides knowing someone or being someone, then there would be even less people in tombs. Rank is there to either show how many times you were in a specific map, ran a heroway under an alias(IWAY was actually fun the play against), or leeched off of better players. Or to occasionally flash someone your Bambi, Balto, Pussy, Fawkes, or Professor Dog.

OP: Your idea, however, is interesting. In the currect system, if you lose horribly over and over again, the only way of showing people you fail is to have it publically announced by either the shitters who beat you or by your rep-obsessed leader. With your system, it shows a current title of skill, letting everyone know how good you are at a dead game(harharhar) or how much you fail.

Either way, there will always be discrimination from people who most likely suck and only want good people with them to make them look good.

Ok I understand what you mean. If I had a higher rank of coarse I would want to display it. Sorry I didn't think of that

, but I have another idea.

Why don't they make a different district type set up where you have to be a certain rank to compete in a cetain district. This way you can still earn fame and ease your way into it by practicing HA without getting thrown full force into it. Of coarse this would make the title less of a big deal

Plus, I still like your initial idea Ketsu

Sorry if it seems like I'm ignoring it or shooting it down

HawkofStorms · Aug 25, 2008, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Yeah, that's not a bad idea. There are plenty of ways to improve the current system.

I still think it should be based on the mathematical ELO system (the one that is modified to rank GvG and HB players).

Bryant Again · Aug 25, 2008, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

I still think it should be based on the mathematical ELO system (the one that is modified to rank GvG and HB players).

True that. Guild ranks can be killed, HA titles cannot.

Kook~NBK~ · Aug 25, 2008, 04:06 AM // 04:06

It seems to me that this idea wouldn't work. As it is now, being of low rank is a sign of inexperience. Elitist only assume that lower ranked people are bad. With the proposed system, the elitists won't know whether someone having a low rank is because they is new or that they actually do suck, but they will still assume the latter.

Savio · Aug 25, 2008, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Have two titles: one based on wins in HA (like the current rank), one based on the ELO system.

Oh, and no matter how you fix rank, people still won't play with the r0's.